1. 06-11-2009 14:13

Rebuild with dual-citizenship status

Comrade Linford, 
In paragragh three of your article, you say that the aim of the dual-citizenship movement is to enable Liberians residing in "other countries" to return and help in the rebuilding process. What I don't really understand is this: "Is it impossible for a naturalized Liberian of any country to build a school, a shopping center or a library in Liberia because of his/her naturalized status"? 
 
You're one of my respected buddies on this Forum. I'd like you to take some time to explain this to me. I hope this is not a shocker! If it is, take it like a man. 
 
Here is my take: 
Presently in Liberia, I think there is a law that forbids a naturalized Liberian of the US and I believe of any country to be employed by the Liberian government. Yet there are Americans who work for the government of Liberia. In my view, it's nothing but dumb to forbid a Liberian to work directly for the government because he or she is naturalized! 
 
If there is such a law, it needs to be changed. In this way, intellectuals like yourself and many others I respect highly on the Forum could go home and fit in.  
 
I don't want to go on any further. Please tell me why a naturalized Liberian who wishes to help in the rebuilding process of our country cannot do that until he or she gets a dual citizenship status approved. 
Don't you think it's the "law" that needs to be abrogated?  
 
I will take a listen.

2. 06-11-2009 20:31

Once a Liberian, always a Liberian.

Former Public works Minister Donzor, told the Liberian senate he was an American citizen. He was still confirmed for the Job. 
 
He was recently removed for STEALING money. That means, Liberians that are American citizens can take up position in the Liberian Government.. 
 
The issues of dual citizenship should really be given considerable anaylses. 
 
Once a Liberian always a Liberian, is important that other people return home and maintained their Liberian citizenship. 
 
So that they can freely invest, and saved their country. Most Liberians became citizens of other countries, because they had no choose..

3. 07-11-2009 08:38

Once a Liberian, always a Liberian.

F.S. Hney, 
 
I believe one has to be a Liberian citizen to own land and opening up land ownership to persons of non Liberian/African descent is a big no-no. Therefore allowing dual citizenship for individuals who have Liberian ancestry is the better option.  
 
I am a strong proponent and supporter of dual citizenship even though I have maintained my Liberian citizenship. I am an equally strong opponent of opening up Liberian citizenship to persons of non african i.e. non black descent.

4. 08-11-2009 10:17

Once a Liberian, always a Liberian.

Gweh, 
 
I think the issue of dual citizenship cannot be addressed apart from the race-based citizenship clause (Article 27) of the Liberian Constitution. The provision of the 'Negro descent' qualification for citizenship, while understandably reflective of 19th century realities, cannot be clung on today by 21st century Liberia. By retaining this racist clause, what Liberia tells the world is that it holds the dubious distinction as the only nation in the world where race is important requirement for citizenship or property ownership. Even the much reviled apartheid racist white-rule South Africa did not exclude blacks from South African citizenship because of race. Times have changed, as is evident by the citizenships of people Liberian background from around the world. This requirement is both archaic, racist, and unjust and must therefore be rescinded. Arguments of possible land-grab by non-blacks is a biggoted strawman which seems to suggest that a legal framework cannot be put in place to prevent the concentration of large land acquisitions in the hands of the wealthy, regardless of race. Rather than making race an issue for what could go wrong regarding preditorial property acquisition, the emphasis should be on having the right legislative enactments in place.  
 
If prejudice in racial stereotpying can be used to exclude or preclude certain people from citizenship and property ownership, prejudice can be used to deny dual-citizenshp too. 
 
Some have used the argument that because Diaspora Liberians are 'wealthy' - (whatever the heck that means), dual-citizenship would give them an unfair advantage. Their solution is to preclude Liberians of the Diaspora from dual-citizenship that is recognized by Liberian law. Unless the embedded racist clause is ammended, fear (which is the seedbed of prejudice) will remain the excuse to preclude and deny citizenship to non-blacks or dual-citizenship rights to Diasporic Liberians.

\n This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it ' target='_blank'>http:// This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

5. 08-11-2009 18:02

Once a Liberian, always a Liberian.

Lee, 
 
Don't mean to interrupt your exchange with Gweh but I believe that this clause (Article 27) is as important today as it was in the past. 
 
The purpose of this clause is protect the Liberian people and to give as many Liberians the opportunity to own property and benefit from land ownership as possible. We are still in the building phase of our country and until we can establish a strong middle class made up of individuals who own their little piece of the Liberian dream this Article should remain as is. 
 
If you can present a solution i.e. another means to protect Liberians from a land grab by the Lebanese and other foreign nationals I am sure those of us who support this article will be willing to listen. Note that if the country's "Liberianization" policy is anything to go by any similar solution is no real solution at all. We still have foreign nationals engaged in businesses that are supposed to be reserved for Liberians, because we have Liberians willing to front for them. this puts Liberians who decide to enter into these businesses at a disadvantage because they can't compete with these foreigners. If foreign nationals are willing to grab our businesses they will certainly be more than willing to grab our land. 
 
A joke a friend once told me, "The day the Lebanese open their women to us..is the day we should open our land to them!"

6. 08-11-2009 18:18

Point Of Correction

I highly appreciate all of the comments so far on this piece of news story coming from the Amsterdam conference of the EFLA. 
 
It is obvious that the race against racial freedom in our country has just begun, and it requires the concerted efforts of visionary Liberians to bear the touch to the finish-line. 
 
I would like to clarify here that the story I published was not intended to detail the core objectives and aims of the dual citizenship campaign. The story was meant to inform Liberians in the Diaspora that EFLA was a part of the process. I mentioned briefly a scanty description of the aim of the dual citizennship campaign as a background information on the Amsterdam conference. 
 
Thanks to Brother F.S. Hney for his quick observation and comments. I do not consider your comment to be an affront or a "shocker", rather it gives me the opportunity to clarify the purpose of the news story. 
 
I suppose there are sound minds in and out of liberia as well as on this forum to discuss the issue. If my news article will create the venue for people to propand their views on this issue, then I leave the floor opened for discussion. 
 
Bro. Lee Wuanti has already raised key points that need to be revisited and considered in the Constitution of Liberia. 
 
Fiannly, I would also like to apologize for the typographical errors in the story, though not an excuse but heavy load is a contributing factor....no time to proof-read and edit. But I hope the message went across.

7. 09-11-2009 12:39

Why, VR?

Comrade VR, 
You owe the readers of this blog a clarification. 
 
Why are you in opposition to denying non-negroid people the opportunity to be naturalized in Liberia if they want to?  
 
I cannot believe that a good conversationalist like you in this day and age would maintain such a view.  
 
Comrade VR, I and the readers patiently await your argument. I hope that you don't want us to be impatient with you.

8. 09-11-2009 20:13

Why, VR?

V.R., 
 
Like F.S. Hney, I'm taken aback by your explanation of why non-blacks should be excluded from Liberian citizenship as well as property ownership. I look forward to further clarification from you. But before you do, I relish the opportunity to take another swing at the citizenship clause. 
 
If Article 27 has not enable Liberia to create a middle class in 162 years, how many more years do you think we need to wait for this to occur before this article can be rescinded? 
 
Descrimination should not be wrong only when we become its target while others become its beneficiaries. It is just as wrong when you and I become its beneficiaries why others become its target. Liberia's founders, as I said reacted to circumstances of their times to sheild themselves from the harsh realities of 19th century racism. When the ACS repartriated the free slaves to the Grain Coast, it was more of the act of racially separating them form living among white people as free and equal. The repartriation meant something different to the black settlers than it did to their white 'benefactors. Self prservation was ensured by excluding the oppressive whites from owning either property or citizenship. They therefore made it law. But in effect what they conceived and is enshrined in the Constitution is the very thing they dispised (racial exclusion) is the very idea they embraced. Quite an irony, isn't it? And yet we continue this day to cling to this 19th century prescripture as though it contains the key to our nation's salvation rather than an object of our mortification. What moral high ground do Liberian victims of racial injustice here in the US have to complain when in fact our Constitution says racial injustice is okay for people who are not like us? When we complain of being treated differently because of our race, our we justified? When we demand not to be discriminated against, are we doing so because we know it is the right thing or are we only using the law to our advantage?  
 
What Liberia needs in the 21st century is to discard this clause that rises out of the discredited 19th 
century philosophy of racial superiority and racial separation.

\n This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it ' target='_blank'>http:// This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

9. 10-11-2009 01:30

Point Of Correction

Any government in Monrovia, that will allow the Lebanese to buy and own land in Liberia, that government will be selling Liberia. 
 
The Lebanese has controlled the national economic of Liberia forever, even today. 
Selling our land to them will be the same as selling the country them. 
 
That will be the last mistake we want to make..

10. 10-11-2009 07:57

Point Of Correction

I have provided all the clarification you need in my post. What is your solution? We don't have a middle class in Liberia because we spent 20 some years setting our economy back not because of Article 27!! 
 
If article 27 is rescinded you will see a real separation between the haves and have nots. A new and separate class will be wealthy foreign landowners made up mostly of Lebanese.  
 
Do you really believe the Lebanese will embrace or have newfound respect for Liberians if make our land and citizenship available to them? They will build their exclusive Lebanese communities, treat Liberians the same they always have, and continue to siphon money to their real country Lebanon. If the Lebanese control our economy now you haven't seen anything yet. Citizenship and land ownership will give them even greater control of our economy in addition to political influence and power. 
 
Article 27 is needed until we can build the capacity of Liberians to the point where there is a strong middle class that controls the economy and can counter the any effect of the extension of citizenship and land rights to foreigners. I say empower the masses and give them opportunity to take advantage of Article 27 before we offer anything to foreigners like the Lebanese. 
 
I favor Article 27 for its protectionism, a necessity after the centuries of abuse the African people experienced at the hands of non black foreigners. Let us close the gap between our own people before we introduce non black foreigners into the equation. When Liberia has an economy run by Liberians and a strong and empowered population I will be in favor of rescinding Article 27.

11. 10-11-2009 16:23

The List grows!

Comrade VR, 
The list of readers who await your argument grows. You're not known as a coward, somehow I get the sense that you're crawling under the bed to pick up some dusty pennies that were dropped by your beloved kids. So much time is being wasted man, otherwise I will surmise that you shot from the hip when you made your revelation. So, hurry up. You owe us an explantion. 
 
One of my respected buddies, Waunti, is getting impatient. I stand by his position without reservations. I will not be surprised if the list grows in a few days. And of course, VR, please keep all platitudes and excuses. I've had those up to my neck!

12. 11-11-2009 12:08

Dual citizenship

Dual citizenship: 
One upon a time a spider was caught in his own web. 
 
A passer-by asked, "Why are you caught in your own web?" 
 
Spider responded, "I wanted to go to the south and to the North and to the East and to the West on the same day and same hour. I wanted to do four things at the same time, but every time I tried to move to the west, I am pulled by the web on the East. So what can I do now to free myself," Spider asked. 
 
The passer-by said, "Mr. Spider if you want all you lose all. so please choose one." 
 
Then a next passer-by stopped by and looked at spider with scornful eys and remarked, "spider, you are a very, very greedy man I have ever seen." 
 
Then spider was turned down by the west, the East, the North, and the South. 
 
Not only was he turned down, but his waist became so small after puling and hauling by the web. 
 
Then the third passer-by laughed, "hahahahah!! monkey thought he was wise until fine shots brought him down."

13. 11-11-2009 13:03

Thomas Doe Again???

This fellow can't even see beyond his nose...keep quiet Mr. Doe. This thing is far beyod your normal human comprehension as you your argument demonstrates. 
Please keep quiet and let the people talk about it.

14. 11-11-2009 13:04

Thomas Doe Again???

This fellow can't even see beyond his nose...keep quiet Mr. Doe. This thing is far beyod your normal human comprehension as you your argument demonstrates. 
Please keep quiet and let the people talk about it.

15. 13-11-2009 02:22

Dual citizenship

Keen Observer: You're asking me to keep quit? sorry Your Lebanese father will, never buy land in Liberia. You need to shut the fuck up. Your NPFL WAR IS OVER. 
 
Those slaves that came to Liberia in 1847 were not sold into slavery from Liberia, therefore they were not Liberian citizens. They were not allowed to become American citizen. 
 
How these slaves became citizens of Liberia? was there any form of constitution at the time? Make them citizens of Liberia? 
 
These very slaves are today claiming to be more Liberians than a naturally born Liberian citizen. 
Dual citizenship should be review by the Liberian senate, and given reasonable 
considerations on ground that Liberians left their homeland due to the NPFL WAR FOR POWER which lasted over 14 years. The war is over Liberians should be well come as citizens. 
 
When the jews were collected from around the world and transported home, they were received as citizens. 
 
Liberia so-called government should give their people similar consideration. 
 
Keen Observer or who soever you are, I hope this will be the last time you're asking me to keep quit. Especially about issues concerning me and my country. 
 
Keen Observer: "Please keep quiet and let the people talk about it."  
 
Who are the people? Decendent of slaves, Like yourself? If I need someone to tell me what to do or say, it will not be you. Please be remainded of April 12 1980.

16. 14-11-2009 04:34

You Are Not

Yes Doe, 
 
I said shut up and let the people talk about it. 
 
You just do not possess the right and requisite qualifications or credentials to take poart in such a debate, owing to your limited access to information. Your knowledge is limited only to NPFL war and your scanty information about slavery. Your mind-set is only confined to NPFL war and slavery and not issues such as the on-going debate about dual citizenship. 
 
If you hate other people living and owning properties in Liberia then why are u living in the USA? 
 
If you wait for people with sound minds to discuss this issue, you will still bebefit one way or the other. So I say again shut up and stay away from here. Do yourself a favor small shame is better big disgrace.

17. 19-11-2009 01:02

Think again

Keen Observer, You should tell your subjects to shut up not me. You're welcome to bring on the big disgrace. 
 
You should not provoke me to insult you publicly. 
 
Just so you know, I am not scared to tell you anything. 
 
I'll tell you again, Your Lebanese friends will not own land in Liberia, take my word to the bank. 
 
Is only a matter of time before I become American and Liberian citizen, nothing you can do about it. You do not know the limit of my knowledge, so jut shut up. 
 
Besides attacking me, I see no input from you on the issue of dual citizenship. 
 
If you follow my posting, you might learn something, I careless about your so called  
credentials, or who you're. Liberia is not for sale. 
 
BRING ON THE BIG DIGRACE, BECAUSE I AM NOT GOING AWAY ON LIBERIAN ISSUES NO WAY..THINK AGAIN.

18. 20-11-2009 01:15

what's to fear!

to all who said lebanese don't own land.....they solved that problem by having liberian children with liberian women and buy land in the name of the child!  
 
many foreigners have done so...it's nothing new! 
 
the question here should be what do we have to fear from allowing dual citizenship? 
 
many countries allow it and have benefitted greatly from it.....what are we waiting for? 
 
we need to weigh the pros and cons, and come out with the best solution for our country.

19. 20-11-2009 06:28

what's to fear

Devil's advocate, You're partly correct. In the case of a liberian child with lebanese father, the child should be allowed to own land. Inasmuch the documents are in the name of the liberian child. 
 
In Nigeria, or Ghana for example, any major business operated by a lebanese, or any foreigner, in any of these countries, that busines MUST be headed by a citizen. 
 
That is the right approch. The other critical and alarming part of this dual citizenship, is that Liberians that left thier homeland because of the last civil war, and became citizens of other countries, are no longer citizens of Liberia when they returned home. That is wrong, and need to be corrected by the government of Liberia. 
 
Those who came to the place now called Liberia, seeking freedom and liberty, were not citizens of Liberia, neither were they sold into slavery from Liberia. But today they're called citizens of Liberia. 
 
How much more for a born citizen who left his home due to war, and welling to return and make contributions to his country. Why should the law limit such a person, and label him as non citizen? 
 
Only Liberia will do that to her citizens. We need to pass that level of thinking. 
 
We know that Liberia is the only country in the world where there is no address systems, we have lived with that all these years. 
 
We also know that Liberia is the only country in the world where there is no small change for the money. 
We have lived with that for all these years. 
 
But it is hard coming home to your country, and be considered a foreigner with limited rights, simiply because you refused to stay home, and be killed in a senseless war. Lawmakers need to revisit the laws and make the necessary corrections...

20. 20-11-2009 09:58

what's to fear

After reading Thomas Doe's rant it makes me want to withdraw my support for Dual citizenship.  
 
Thomas Doe, these free people you call "slaves" created the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the very citizenship article you now support! How you can express hatred for them with one hand then stand for what they believed in with the other is beyond me!?!?

21. 20-11-2009 15:01

what's to fear

What good dual citizenship will do for us? because I for one have been living abroad for thirty years yet I am recognized as Liberian when ever I introduce myself to born citizens of that country I am always asked where from you? I will reply I am a Liberian, therefore what good will that do for me if I opt out of my Liberian citizenship? I think having a resident permitted is good for me. dual citizenship will allow me to cheat other Liberians of their rights of employments.

22. 21-11-2009 11:20

what's to fear?

we need to find out what the underlying problem with this issue is? is it that people don't want people with dual citizenship voting? or is it that the government can probably do without the taxes that they will pay when they decide to live and work in Liberia? or could it be the access to freedom of movement/capital between the countries? how about the compentent individuals who will be willing to go in and work in their areas of expertise!  
 
some of our neighbours enjoy it as well as many other well developed nations in the world. so what is it that we have to be worried about that makes this issue such a touchy subject? 
 
you hear lawmakers talking about people with two passports taking government jobs, stealing money and running to their other country. the people with one passport do have done the most damage to liberia. and still continue to do so. 
 
fact is whatever country you are in, sees you as her citizen and you would have to abide by the laws of that land.  
 
like i said before we need to weigh the pros and cons before we put a stamp on the issue.

23. 21-11-2009 20:51

what's to fear?

This goes to Thomas Doe..Whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother is a liar. The one who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love the God whom he has not seen